No emotions or Romance in War

Danzil Keelor is a name etched in our memory. In the 1965 war against Pakistan, he and his brother Trevor, with their dexterous maneuvering of Gnats, spelt doom for Pakistan’s Sabre jets. At present, Air Commodore Denzil Deelor is Air Officer Commanding of the Mirage air base at Gwalior. He talks to Jitendra Muchhal about IAF yesterday, today, tomorrow, about Mirage-2000 H and about his life and times. Excerpts from the interview.

Jitendra Muchhal: Sir, it is said that your father was a teacher. Then what got you excited to the Air Force?
Danzil Keelor: I suppose it is a little more exciting and adventurous. But my heart is in teaching. I have done a lot of teaching in the Air Force itself.

JM: Do you feel, after looking back over the years that you could have been better off as a teacher than what you are?
DK: (After a long pause) Life is an attitude. I really don’t know how I would have performed, but I know I would have happy as a teacher. I may not have been as materially well off as I am now, but that was an altogether different line. In the Air Force-the excitement and adventure is beyond one’s expectations and you just can’t imagine in teaching having achieved what I have achieved in the Services.

JM: When did you join the Air Force?
DK: 1954 … November 6, 1954.

JM: Where was your first posting?
DK: I made my debut as a young flying officer at Pune. Since then, I have traveled the length and breadth of the country.

JM: Would you care to look back over the years and tell us about them?
DK: The No.4 squadron was my first squadron and I am very proud to say that today, I am the Commodore Commandant of No.4 . I stayed in the squadron for 10 years. I am very attached to No.4 squadron. I then went to Adipur, Jamnagar, Phagwara where wedding bells were waiting for me. Then I was posted at Ambala, Delhi and Kalaikunda. Then I was at Tejpur just before the Chinese trouble. Then I went to Jamnagar and took part in the Goa operations. Then it was back to Tejpur and from there I was sent to Russia for MiG-21 training. By the time I came back it was time for Gnats. Then it was 1965-I took part in the war.

JM: Which were the planes you flew till the ’65 war?
DK: I started wit Vampires then we switched to Oregon’s and then I left No.4 when they were on Oregon’s. Later, they changed over to MiGs. Then I commandeered the squadron also. I was the flight commander and after 10 years, became the squadron commander. So like the Army, I have a long attachment to the squadron which is a rare thing in the IAF.

JM: Men keep on changing squadrons?
DK: Yes, It is just a coincidence that I happened to stay on.

JM: You and your brother Trevor were the ‘monarch of the sky’ in your Gnats bringing down Sabre jets by the score. Will you describe your feelings at the time when you were all set to blast an enemy aircraft.
DK: To tell you the truth, you don’t have any feelings at all. You are scared and numb. What one experiences in war is shock. Because you are facing a reality, you get quite numb and unemotional. In fact there are no emotions or time for emotions. You are just trying to transform your skill in such a way so that you get him, because if you don’t, he will get you. And one enters in such a situation where emotions and romance of life cease to exist. It’s a plain and simple case-you kill me or I will kill you.

JM: How many Saber jets do you have on your notches?
DK: (With air of modesty yet showing satisfaction) Well, pilots do not talk of their feats. That’s a tradition and I would like to keep it up.

JM: How does Gnat compare with the Mirage?
DK: It is -I mean – it was the most maneuverable of machines available and miniature thing to fly. In its days, it was the undoubted numero uno but it requited a very high degree of skill to control and fly. But the technology of that plane was old. With the Mirage, we have entered a new era of tactics. Today, our radar will locate the enemy and that’s the end of the story. You don’t have to wage a man-to-man battle. Analogically, it’s like fighting with a sword and fighting with a gun. The very concept of aerial warfare has undergone a metamorphosis. This is where the difference lies: The technology, the avionics, the capabilities, the missiles are far better. But that time, since you had to go into the arena to win the bout , maneuverability was very important.

JM: You are one of the most highly decorated officer of the Air Force. Please tell me about various awards won by you.
DK: In the 1965 Pak war, I was awarded a Vir Chakra, For the Goa operations, I had a commendation from the Chief of the Air Staff. Then I had another commendation and two commendations by the AOC-in-C. In 1979 when I was in command of the fighter combat school. I twice brought back air crafts which were about to crash. For that, my shoulders were pinned up with a Kirti Chakra- the hightest gallantry award in peace time. And January 26 this year. I was awarded the Ati Vishishta Seva Medal, probably for setting up this base in the shortest possible time.

JM: With the influx of sophisticated and super-sophisticated air-craft, do you feel that a lot still depends upon the man behind the joy stick?
DK: It depends on the man behind the joy stick in toto. In all types and classes of planes, the job of the pilot is overriding. The job of the pilot is immensely exacting .We are nowhere near the age when he can just sit back and watch the fireworks cracking. All the amount of effort to reach that finesse is mammoth. And I can safely say that today, he has to work much lesser than in my days. The technology is totally geared to make the pilot work the minimum so that he can concentrate on the weapons. It’s much easier to fly the aircraft today because they don’t want you to worry about flying, they want you to be jacked up with the avionics and your arsenal.

JM: Our pilots are rated the best, why?
DK: (After a long pause) For one, it is inherent and secondly we train them very well so as not to leave any crevices what- so ever. We have had the experience of war. Today the weakest link of the armed forces is that they have not tasted real blood. So they do not know what it is like. In war you learn the most obvious of things which you overlook in training. And the wars which we have fought-they have taught us much more than the whole lot of training could. That is why in ’62, we lost on all fronts due to a simple reason-inexperience. Today, we can never commit the same error again-in fact we have moved from strength to strength.

JM: And now to the piece deresistance – the Mirage 2000H! Firstly, why is the Mirage 2000H, a Mirage 2000H? Likewise the F-16s MiG-21s, why are the suffixes there?
DK: It is a French selection. They had the Mirage-3, then they had the Mirage-5, then they had the Mirage-4, then they had the Mirage F1, and now the Mirage 2000H. Probably talking in terms of the year 2000.

JM: How many squadrons do we have of these aircraft in our country?
DK: Oh, plenty!

JM: How many pilots are there in the country who can fly this plane?
DK: (After brief hesitation) Is it necessary for you to ask that?

JM: Definitely my readers will be curious to know.
DK: We have trained many chaps and now, many more are undergoing training.

JM: How much does a Mirage actually cost the country?
DK: Rs. 15-20 crores. Taking into account the weapons training, infrastructure-easy Rs 20 crore.

JM: Have you ever had a go at the Mirage?
DK: Yes.

JM: Does your age permit you to?
DK: Well, I have only flown five or six sorties. But I do feel old flying it.

JM: Must be an enjoyable experience?
DK: No! Not for me-when I fly, I love to fly with confidence, packed with skill and professionalism. It takes around 100 hours in the logbook to achieve that. Then you enjoy commanding the bird. Flying it just three or four times does not give me pleasure though it may satisfy my ego. I do not have to fly it because it is the next-generation’s job. I do not have to jump into their shoes. A pilot is what he is, not what he was. I have faded into the hallowed halls.

JM: How does the Mirage rate nationally and internationally?
DK: Well in India, It’s on the top. And in the world too, it is one of the most advanced products of defense avionics. No doubt about it. Many nations are buying it. In fact, any nation out of the clutches of the White House goes for it. There are only two aircraft in the running; the Mirage 2000H and the F-16. Those who do not come under the pressure of the US buy the Mirage. Conversely, those who want to get out of the clutches of the US buy the Mirage.

JM: What are the capabilities of the Mirage?
DK: Latest we can do anything. It’s a true multi-role air craft.

JM: Does the IAF have enough strength to stand the threat across the two borders?
DK: Of course! We are well prepared and that’s what we are trained to do.

JM: Do you support the idea of the Army having a separate air wing?
DK: We can’t afford it. It’s a very sensitive question but I will answer it. You see, to fly an aircraft is not as simple as it looks on the face of it. For that you need a massive infrastructure. During the past 30 or 40 years. the IAF has built up that infrastructure. To begin now from scratch would mean dishing out crores of rupees. Can we afford it? In the Vietnam war, the US had seven air forces-army air force, the marine air force and what not-but it couldn’t work. So, they all had to be brought under a single seventh air force headquarters to prove effective. It’s not a debatable question. If you can afford it, have it.

JM: Do you think that the IAF pay scales are good enough to attract the right kind of youth?
DK: Today, we are very well off. There were times when we flew for practically nothing. Today, we are fully secured. I have got immense faith in the youngsters. Given the right kind of training they will live up to the expectations. I can say that they are better than what I was at their age. That is how I judge the evolution of the IAf.

JM: As AOC Gwalior sector, are you facing any developmental problems?
DK: Not at all. The people of the city, the administration have all been very helpful and cooperative. In fact, it’s model for the nation how Gwalior could gear up and get ready for the Mirage in such a short span of time.

JM: With some F-16s that side and an equal number of Mirage this side, how do things stand?
DK: We are very strong because we have the ability to sustain, we have got depth. The only difference is that we have to pay ourselves for our depth and quantity whereas they get it wrapped up in a gift paper. As things stand, we are a threat to them, not they to us. They should be more worried than we are.

JM: Do you foresee the possibility of any confrontation in the future?
DK: The possibility of war can never be ruled out. In 1965 when war broke out, I was at Tejpur, I came to know that our Vampires were going on. I didn’t believe it. Then again in 1971 I couldn’t believe my ears. After studying international history and polities one can never predict. We are spending money not to go in drain, but to be all ready for the time if it comes and when it comes.

JM: Do you think we are ready?
DK: Yes, there’s no point in building a big country if you are unable to defend it. The same way. There’s no point in wasting money on defense with nothing worthwhile to guard inside. India is always branded a rich country with poor people. But to me, Pakistan is a poor country with seemingly rich people. So if you analyze that in the total perspective, you would get what I mean.